If Jim Jordan brushed up on the history of the Church Committee, he'd know that the claims his whistleblowers are making are precisely the things that can't happen anymore.
Thanks for this discussion of this sham committee whose purpose seems to be exactly what it is named to uncover -the weaponization of government against political enemies.
I've typically found it best not to listen to authoritarians' thoughts on civil liberties, particularly those who disregard the right of citizens to choose their leaders in free and fair elections by voting against the certification of a free and fair election.
In fact, I can't help but notice that today's GOP is comprised of exactly the kind of people who would be all too willing to use the FBI and the military to attack civil liberties and the Constitution the first chance they got. On top of that, I highly doubt they would be the least bit concerned about the irreparable damage that would do to both entities' reputations.
Well, it looks like they're already hell-bent on wrecking the FBI, IC, and U.S. military's reputations, not to mention law enforcement in general.
Comprehensive and scholarly. I enjoy your mind. The justification I propose for using Today’s FBI to infiltrate the KKK and other white supremacist orgs in the USA and Why this would not justify going after Black Lives Matter is this: the KKK and other White Supremacjst orgs have as their goal, the replacement of our Democracy with a form of government that does not represent all, just some. And the way they determine worthiness is skin color, religion, and other objective sets of criteria. The KKK and other white supremacist groups use violence and threats of violence to further their aims. It’s violent and frequently targeting judges. Black Lives Matter does not have such goals. Not even close.
As for Jim Jordan and this group of trumplican Republican Party members, they are in love with the sound of their own voice. They will abuse absolutely ANY power they have. To wit, each had carried trumps water and acted as attack dog for trump these last 6 years. Most I hadn’t ever heard of till trump seizing office 2016. A few I had heard of from targeting Hillary Clinton and Pres Obama since 2010. They were Inspired by another in love with the sound of his voice, Rush Limbaugh. Now these silly vile ideologues are irritating, they mostly Don’t break the law. Whereas the KKK and other white supremacist orgs do break the law. Threatening violence, committing acts of violence, committing other crimes such as illegal drug manufacturing distribution and sales, financial crimes, illegal gun distribution and sales.
The Pre Church committee FBI made up stories about Martin Luther King Jr, made private information public with the goal of destroying Martin Luther King and the entire Civil Rights Movement. That was illegal snd just plain wrong and abhorrent. But I propose Today’s trump party consisting of Matt Gaetz, jim Jordan, Marjorie Taylor Greene, Boebert, there ard 15 or 20 firebrands he uses in the House and a group in the Senate who Would absolutely justify any behavior of trump period. This is dangerous.
What emerges is the need for clear objective criteria for the Govt to use when doing its daily routine government operations and when orgs dedicated to overthrowing our Democracy commit an act they should be arrested.
Great piece, Asha! What most in this country do not understand are those uncomfortable trade-offs came out of the Church Committee to protect 1st amendment rights. On one hand it has largely stopped the profiling and investigating of left leaning, progressive, civil rights groups. On the other hand it has allowed the rise of the hard right and resurgence of the groups like the Klan. The question is now where is the bright line drawn? It is difficult, but any speech that crosses over into wire fraud, violence, kidnapping, or any physical intimidation is grounds for investigation. But all too often that is ignored until it is too late. And from what groups is that coming from? Mostly the hard right. So, going after that would result in cries of the hard right snowflakes “why aren’t you going after (fill in your favorite left leaning org or group)? Govt is a oppressing me”
In the end it is the classic game of the hard right, facists, racists, etc of deflect and project. Every protest is an admission of guilt.
As part of the public I have zero interaction with the FBI. I do read about cases where they are involved in investigations since the media jumps all over those but rarely are there details. And unless it is some big story like Waco from a civilians perspective things are done as they should be in the FBI. Then comes Trump and starts going after individuals who he perceives as not loyal and uses his Twitter platform to badmouth (and fire) them or his world stage like in Helsinki to undermine the FBI. And out here from middle America we don't see anyone in the FBI defending their own. For 4 yrs Trump works at picking away at the institution as we watch. This is all out in the open. So the question is how is it Jordan can hold sham committee investigation against the FBI but nobody holds Trump accountable? I know there are only so many hours in the day and much of his misdeeds will be left unpunished but not when it is something so vital as rebuilding the trust of the FBI for the American people and their own employees.
The ‘insurrection’ and its aftermath has been SO disturbing. Yes, there have been arrests, and the stream of them would seem to speak to the need for more action, rather than less. Yet look at what has happened: McCarthy is speaker, Jordan is running a sham committee, TFG is still a free man and running again. Thanks for this history lesson!
"But when I press them to try to come up with a facially-neutral, bright line rule that would allow the FBI to surveil and collect intelligence on the KKK — or their modern day equivalents — but would clearly exclude things like Black Lives Matter protesters, they find it hard to come up with one."
How about "The KKK regularly murdered people and used the threat of extra-judicial execution as a method of political and economic control." ? Or, "The KKK created an infrastructure of support and training for murdering people." ?
One more thing. The revelations of the Fox News Ceo and most well known tv hosts are shocking. They also seem to serve to break mores, or if not mores, they break expectations of Americas societal belief in people and companies delivering the news, as people above the political assassins we see, well, personified in jim Jordan., trump, and others of that ilk. It’s likely just accidental. But it serves those Bezmenov described, as wanting to launch disinformation campaigns. I.E. Russian FSB. The fairness doctrine regulation about what can be said in the mass media, and how much time must be devoted to each side in order to be fair was done away with 20 or 30 years ago. Right around the time rush Limbaugh sold his weekday three hour radio show indoctrinating the public to his love of all things Conservative and Republican Party related with contempt hate and villifying progressive, liberal, and Democratic Party related, was aired on every USA military base since 1989. Disinformation much? Rush Limbaugh was good friends with Roger Ailes. They also shared ideology and the belief that the media was out to get Conservatives in USA. Richard Nixon was the progenitor of this sick paranoia.
Which brings me back to one of your opening lines Asha. You mentioned that Jim Jordan claimed to have beacoup boatloads over witnesses prepared to testify how the FBI was being weaponized by Democrats. I never got that memo. And then when Jordan opened his hearing the number diminished to three. A boatload. Down to three. Reminiscent of the great grandfather of all these trumplicans. And one May draw a line from jim Jordan back to trump, back to trumps mentor and father figure Roy Cohn, a contemporary of Richard Nixon and Nixon’s notorious HUAC House UnAmerican Activitirs Committee, that’s our House of Representatives committee that investigated Un American Activities that was the predicate to the red scare in American History but I digress. Jim Jordan claiming boatloads of evidence r and witnesses recalls Senator Joseph McCarthy Republican From Wisconsin, bragging loudly and frequently “I have here in my hand, the names of hundreds of Communists in the US Army and State department That I plan to make public...” he never produced one name. Fast forward to the pillow man Mike Lindell saying at Many of his tv appearances and cyber ninja “seminars” that he too has proof of election fraud he is just about to make public. He never has made any evidence public. Giuliani said the same thing until he was asked under oath what evidence he had of election fraud and he said “I don’t have any evidence” shrugging as if he didn’t think he needed to have any evidence.
The thing we are talking about here is a belief system. Not facts and laws. An ideology or belief system that’s been in the process of construction since 1946.
***This process, below, could even, theoretically, be accomplished by groups such as the American Civil Liberties Union (ACLU) in cases, perhaps, where the NGO has ample evidence of voter suppression (or even illegal wiretapping!). If the evidence from a hard news story were to meet, by way of evidence and journalistic integrity, probable cause standard to surveil for furtherance on commission of offenses, then an experienced, private attorney (typically a former prosecutor) and his/her investigative team could take money from the NGO to approach the very busy United States Attorney's Office about securing the right to surveil, and findings could be turned over by legal application and standard to such an agency which could use it to prevent further wrongdoing,
[The only way I see, ever, around the situation that the federal government lacks personnel and initiatives to surveil and prevent catastrophe is for-profit warrant application in association with police and within the constraints of law. Although an application for federal, electronic surveillance is typically made by the department itself, outside contractors can very easily use this form, available from the United States Courts, to act as attaches to an investigative branch of government that should not be so swamped]:
The methods used by Jim Jordan in the attempt to call upon unreliable, supposed insiders to incite mistrust in the FBI is, again, an attempt at asymmetrical, psychological warfare. On the one hand, Jordan uses threat by way of prosecution and other forms of allegations; on the other hand, his use of such is to be made against the Department of Justice, the body designated by the federal government to investigate and litigate any relevant offense.
Also, in a world wherein abuses by the “police” tend to focus upon civil rights problems, including incidents involving blacks and police, Jordan attempts to bring the blame upon the very governmental body most notorious (as far as public relations) for discrimination against minorities to focus upon supposed abuses towards the majority whites.
J. Edgar Hoover’s FBI could, potentially, have gone out of bounds to nail the rioters prior to the occurrence of the actual riots based on an idea that rules did not apply to Hoover and his forces once they took action to stop the greater evil. However, Jordan could use behavior like this out of the FBI and associated personnel to make a claim of biased conspiracy to act preemptively and without cause, even though his asymmetrical attempt to disparage the FBI calls upon a need to “weaponize” the Department of Justice at the same time. (“My crime flies; the other guy’s crime crashes”). Once a discrimination claim could be made in regard to search and seizure, for example, then legal language of the twenty-first century comes into play, including in conspiracy law:
The only way I see, ever, around the situation that the federal government lacks personnel and initiatives to surveil and prevent catastrophe is for-profit warrant application in association with police and within the constraints of law. Although an application for federal, electronic surveillance is typically made by the department itself, outside contractors can very easily use this form, available from the United States Courts, to act as attaches to an investigative branch of government that should not be so swamped:
Then, perhaps, Hoover’s wish to bring society to order by issuing more warrants might be granted.
The scope of USC Title 18, even though not permitting use of political ideology for probable cause standard, does permit use of abstract evidence in line with the possible commission of any number of conspiracy related offenses to look into, electronically and without notice, such a vast number of Americans that today we face much different problems than did Communist sympathizers or those loosely affiliated with the KKK. Because of the greater number of trained investigative professionals and due to third party reporting of potential wrongdoing by civilians (including by way of the downloading of third party apps with tracking), we face an era where most choose to remain grounded in useful expenditure of time, with some, like Jordan, scared of what his aids have recently said in front of their Alexa devices.
Thanks for this discussion of this sham committee whose purpose seems to be exactly what it is named to uncover -the weaponization of government against political enemies.
Excellent post.
I've typically found it best not to listen to authoritarians' thoughts on civil liberties, particularly those who disregard the right of citizens to choose their leaders in free and fair elections by voting against the certification of a free and fair election.
In fact, I can't help but notice that today's GOP is comprised of exactly the kind of people who would be all too willing to use the FBI and the military to attack civil liberties and the Constitution the first chance they got. On top of that, I highly doubt they would be the least bit concerned about the irreparable damage that would do to both entities' reputations.
Well, it looks like they're already hell-bent on wrecking the FBI, IC, and U.S. military's reputations, not to mention law enforcement in general.
Comprehensive and scholarly. I enjoy your mind. The justification I propose for using Today’s FBI to infiltrate the KKK and other white supremacist orgs in the USA and Why this would not justify going after Black Lives Matter is this: the KKK and other White Supremacjst orgs have as their goal, the replacement of our Democracy with a form of government that does not represent all, just some. And the way they determine worthiness is skin color, religion, and other objective sets of criteria. The KKK and other white supremacist groups use violence and threats of violence to further their aims. It’s violent and frequently targeting judges. Black Lives Matter does not have such goals. Not even close.
As for Jim Jordan and this group of trumplican Republican Party members, they are in love with the sound of their own voice. They will abuse absolutely ANY power they have. To wit, each had carried trumps water and acted as attack dog for trump these last 6 years. Most I hadn’t ever heard of till trump seizing office 2016. A few I had heard of from targeting Hillary Clinton and Pres Obama since 2010. They were Inspired by another in love with the sound of his voice, Rush Limbaugh. Now these silly vile ideologues are irritating, they mostly Don’t break the law. Whereas the KKK and other white supremacist orgs do break the law. Threatening violence, committing acts of violence, committing other crimes such as illegal drug manufacturing distribution and sales, financial crimes, illegal gun distribution and sales.
The Pre Church committee FBI made up stories about Martin Luther King Jr, made private information public with the goal of destroying Martin Luther King and the entire Civil Rights Movement. That was illegal snd just plain wrong and abhorrent. But I propose Today’s trump party consisting of Matt Gaetz, jim Jordan, Marjorie Taylor Greene, Boebert, there ard 15 or 20 firebrands he uses in the House and a group in the Senate who Would absolutely justify any behavior of trump period. This is dangerous.
What emerges is the need for clear objective criteria for the Govt to use when doing its daily routine government operations and when orgs dedicated to overthrowing our Democracy commit an act they should be arrested.
Great piece, Asha! What most in this country do not understand are those uncomfortable trade-offs came out of the Church Committee to protect 1st amendment rights. On one hand it has largely stopped the profiling and investigating of left leaning, progressive, civil rights groups. On the other hand it has allowed the rise of the hard right and resurgence of the groups like the Klan. The question is now where is the bright line drawn? It is difficult, but any speech that crosses over into wire fraud, violence, kidnapping, or any physical intimidation is grounds for investigation. But all too often that is ignored until it is too late. And from what groups is that coming from? Mostly the hard right. So, going after that would result in cries of the hard right snowflakes “why aren’t you going after (fill in your favorite left leaning org or group)? Govt is a oppressing me”
In the end it is the classic game of the hard right, facists, racists, etc of deflect and project. Every protest is an admission of guilt.
As part of the public I have zero interaction with the FBI. I do read about cases where they are involved in investigations since the media jumps all over those but rarely are there details. And unless it is some big story like Waco from a civilians perspective things are done as they should be in the FBI. Then comes Trump and starts going after individuals who he perceives as not loyal and uses his Twitter platform to badmouth (and fire) them or his world stage like in Helsinki to undermine the FBI. And out here from middle America we don't see anyone in the FBI defending their own. For 4 yrs Trump works at picking away at the institution as we watch. This is all out in the open. So the question is how is it Jordan can hold sham committee investigation against the FBI but nobody holds Trump accountable? I know there are only so many hours in the day and much of his misdeeds will be left unpunished but not when it is something so vital as rebuilding the trust of the FBI for the American people and their own employees.
The ‘insurrection’ and its aftermath has been SO disturbing. Yes, there have been arrests, and the stream of them would seem to speak to the need for more action, rather than less. Yet look at what has happened: McCarthy is speaker, Jordan is running a sham committee, TFG is still a free man and running again. Thanks for this history lesson!
"But when I press them to try to come up with a facially-neutral, bright line rule that would allow the FBI to surveil and collect intelligence on the KKK — or their modern day equivalents — but would clearly exclude things like Black Lives Matter protesters, they find it hard to come up with one."
How about "The KKK regularly murdered people and used the threat of extra-judicial execution as a method of political and economic control." ? Or, "The KKK created an infrastructure of support and training for murdering people." ?
As usual, Asha, you are spot on!
One more thing. The revelations of the Fox News Ceo and most well known tv hosts are shocking. They also seem to serve to break mores, or if not mores, they break expectations of Americas societal belief in people and companies delivering the news, as people above the political assassins we see, well, personified in jim Jordan., trump, and others of that ilk. It’s likely just accidental. But it serves those Bezmenov described, as wanting to launch disinformation campaigns. I.E. Russian FSB. The fairness doctrine regulation about what can be said in the mass media, and how much time must be devoted to each side in order to be fair was done away with 20 or 30 years ago. Right around the time rush Limbaugh sold his weekday three hour radio show indoctrinating the public to his love of all things Conservative and Republican Party related with contempt hate and villifying progressive, liberal, and Democratic Party related, was aired on every USA military base since 1989. Disinformation much? Rush Limbaugh was good friends with Roger Ailes. They also shared ideology and the belief that the media was out to get Conservatives in USA. Richard Nixon was the progenitor of this sick paranoia.
Which brings me back to one of your opening lines Asha. You mentioned that Jim Jordan claimed to have beacoup boatloads over witnesses prepared to testify how the FBI was being weaponized by Democrats. I never got that memo. And then when Jordan opened his hearing the number diminished to three. A boatload. Down to three. Reminiscent of the great grandfather of all these trumplicans. And one May draw a line from jim Jordan back to trump, back to trumps mentor and father figure Roy Cohn, a contemporary of Richard Nixon and Nixon’s notorious HUAC House UnAmerican Activitirs Committee, that’s our House of Representatives committee that investigated Un American Activities that was the predicate to the red scare in American History but I digress. Jim Jordan claiming boatloads of evidence r and witnesses recalls Senator Joseph McCarthy Republican From Wisconsin, bragging loudly and frequently “I have here in my hand, the names of hundreds of Communists in the US Army and State department That I plan to make public...” he never produced one name. Fast forward to the pillow man Mike Lindell saying at Many of his tv appearances and cyber ninja “seminars” that he too has proof of election fraud he is just about to make public. He never has made any evidence public. Giuliani said the same thing until he was asked under oath what evidence he had of election fraud and he said “I don’t have any evidence” shrugging as if he didn’t think he needed to have any evidence.
The thing we are talking about here is a belief system. Not facts and laws. An ideology or belief system that’s been in the process of construction since 1946.
***This process, below, could even, theoretically, be accomplished by groups such as the American Civil Liberties Union (ACLU) in cases, perhaps, where the NGO has ample evidence of voter suppression (or even illegal wiretapping!). If the evidence from a hard news story were to meet, by way of evidence and journalistic integrity, probable cause standard to surveil for furtherance on commission of offenses, then an experienced, private attorney (typically a former prosecutor) and his/her investigative team could take money from the NGO to approach the very busy United States Attorney's Office about securing the right to surveil, and findings could be turned over by legal application and standard to such an agency which could use it to prevent further wrongdoing,
[The only way I see, ever, around the situation that the federal government lacks personnel and initiatives to surveil and prevent catastrophe is for-profit warrant application in association with police and within the constraints of law. Although an application for federal, electronic surveillance is typically made by the department itself, outside contractors can very easily use this form, available from the United States Courts, to act as attaches to an investigative branch of government that should not be so swamped]:
https://www.uscourts.gov/forms/law-enforcement-grand-jury-and-prosecution-forms/application-warrant-telephone-or-other
Then, perhaps, Hoover’s wish to bring society to order by issuing more warrants might be granted.
The methods used by Jim Jordan in the attempt to call upon unreliable, supposed insiders to incite mistrust in the FBI is, again, an attempt at asymmetrical, psychological warfare. On the one hand, Jordan uses threat by way of prosecution and other forms of allegations; on the other hand, his use of such is to be made against the Department of Justice, the body designated by the federal government to investigate and litigate any relevant offense.
Also, in a world wherein abuses by the “police” tend to focus upon civil rights problems, including incidents involving blacks and police, Jordan attempts to bring the blame upon the very governmental body most notorious (as far as public relations) for discrimination against minorities to focus upon supposed abuses towards the majority whites.
J. Edgar Hoover’s FBI could, potentially, have gone out of bounds to nail the rioters prior to the occurrence of the actual riots based on an idea that rules did not apply to Hoover and his forces once they took action to stop the greater evil. However, Jordan could use behavior like this out of the FBI and associated personnel to make a claim of biased conspiracy to act preemptively and without cause, even though his asymmetrical attempt to disparage the FBI calls upon a need to “weaponize” the Department of Justice at the same time. (“My crime flies; the other guy’s crime crashes”). Once a discrimination claim could be made in regard to search and seizure, for example, then legal language of the twenty-first century comes into play, including in conspiracy law:
https://law.justia.com/codes/new-jersey/2021/title-2c/section-2c-5-2/
https://law.justia.com/codes/new-jersey/2021/title-2c/#:~:text=Title%202C%20%2D%20The%20New%20Jersey%20Code%20of%20Criminal%20Justice,-Section%202C%3A1&text=Section%202C%3A1%2D4.1%20%2D,out%2Dof%2DState%20conviction.
The only way I see, ever, around the situation that the federal government lacks personnel and initiatives to surveil and prevent catastrophe is for-profit warrant application in association with police and within the constraints of law. Although an application for federal, electronic surveillance is typically made by the department itself, outside contractors can very easily use this form, available from the United States Courts, to act as attaches to an investigative branch of government that should not be so swamped:
https://www.uscourts.gov/forms/law-enforcement-grand-jury-and-prosecution-forms/application-warrant-telephone-or-other
Then, perhaps, Hoover’s wish to bring society to order by issuing more warrants might be granted.
The scope of USC Title 18, even though not permitting use of political ideology for probable cause standard, does permit use of abstract evidence in line with the possible commission of any number of conspiracy related offenses to look into, electronically and without notice, such a vast number of Americans that today we face much different problems than did Communist sympathizers or those loosely affiliated with the KKK. Because of the greater number of trained investigative professionals and due to third party reporting of potential wrongdoing by civilians (including by way of the downloading of third party apps with tracking), we face an era where most choose to remain grounded in useful expenditure of time, with some, like Jordan, scared of what his aids have recently said in front of their Alexa devices.
https://uscode.house.gov/view.xhtml?path=/prelim@title18&edition=prelim