Readers who went to Yale may be interested to know that Professor Milgram conducted his notorious experiment in the basement of Linsly-Chittenden Hall, which was where the Psychology Department was located at the time. I often help judge college moot-court competitions in Linsly-Chittenden and like to tell the students about that bit of Yale history.
They listen politely--we're in character as a judge and moot-court participants waiting for word from the organizers to begin a round, so any responses from the students are restrained!
This is an important and astute piece, @Asha. In his book "Obedience to Authority: An Experimental View" (1974), Milgram stated “Tyrannies are perpetuated by diffident men who do not possess the courage to act out their beliefs.” Philip Zimbardo demonstrated similar dynamics and propensities in his controversial 1971 Stanford Prison Experiment where college-age subjects showed increased brutality when arbitrarily assigned the role of 'guards in a mock prison.
But perhaps the more important point -- which is the second area of focus in your work on complicity -- is about the people who disobey, not just all who are compliant and complicit. Jan Rensaleer, one of Milgam's subjects, responded to the experiment’s warning that he had no other choice to continue at 255 volts by declaring: “I do have a choice. Why don’t I have a choice? I came here on my own free will. I thought I could help in a research project. But if I have to hurt somebody to do that, or if I was in his place, too, I wouldn’t stay there. I can’t continue. I’m very sorry. I think I’ve gone too far already, probably.”
Lastly, I'll share that your article clearly underscores and re-emphasizes, from my perspective, how closely Trump and his followers -- not just the MAGA base but nearly the entirety of the GOP -- tracks to the definitions of pig-butchering frauds: a long-game con in which trust is cultivated -- marks are fattened-up, actually meaning groomed, into allowing coercive control -- before being ruthlessly butchered. This is central to the abusive relationship we've been discussing.
I just watched The Experimenter tonight! I think Rensaleer was Dutch, right? And an electrical engineer…which seemed to make him more empathetic because he knew what it felt like to be shocked.
Thank you for this cogent analysis of our current predicament. And while I've read quite a bit about Milgrim's experiment, I was unaware of the subsequent research where the changed variables led to a remarkably different result.
Great piece, and welcome back from cruise, sorry to miss it!
In engineering we call the phenomena you describe as "normalizing deviation". Prime examples were the Space Shuttle accidents. Neither one was caused by a sudden out-of-blue event. The root causes of both had happened, and been observed, documented, and studied many times over many previous missions. Both were way out of specification events that came to be accepted as normal deviations from the intended design. "We've seen it before, it'll be fine" became the group mentality. Until reality and statisitics finally caught up to them, both times.
The Prediction Markets must have read your article-though they failed to give you credit! This is what they are saying, "Prediction markets currently show a strong consensus that Acting Attorney General Todd Blanche will be confirmed by the Senate, with odds hovering between 80% and 85%."
Thanks for making the connection between Todd Blanche's confirmation hearing and Milgram.
Another interesting connection is that Milgram initially decided to test compliance to study the German people's compliance to Hitler and the Nazis. I think many in the scientific field were surprised at the results. So now it is no surprise how trump's lackeys are going along: trump as the authority figure will be obeyed. (Sadly)
I tend to agree with you. I keep hoping that at least a few Republicans will discover some integrity within themselves, but I doubt it.
My even more troubling concern is that, even if not confirmed, Blanche might be able to stay in the Acting AG position indefinitely. What can you tell us about that?
The only Rs that would discover some integrity are those up are up for election in November in states that Trump lost in '24. There is only one - Susan Collins of Maine. However, the race of Dan Sullivan of Alaska is considered a toss-up, as is Husted in Ohio.
Politicians want more than anything to be reelected. That's where their integrity would come from.
Trump and his sycophant's have been eating away at the soul of our democracy in constant steady bites for the past 10 years. Project 2028 is Trump's "Mein Kampf", and the fascist playbook for the end of our Constitutional democracy and the rule of law. Hopefully Blanche will NOT be confirmed, even though his Dear Leader will probably keep him around, as he is the consummate legal snake for this entire hideous nightmare!
Wondering: "making the decision to perform a seemingly inconsequential ethical act can effectively script someone to repeat increasingly larger transgressions" reads that an ethical act is a transgression. I doubt that was the intent. Perhaps it should read: "unethical"...
Please note that I added a "not" to the block quote -- which is a critical typo correction!
This was logically such an obvious typo it was pretty easy to mentally correct. Still, a good thing Pancake caught it for you!
(PS this is utterly fascinating stuff.)
Thank you. I was just about to comment on that.
Readers who went to Yale may be interested to know that Professor Milgram conducted his notorious experiment in the basement of Linsly-Chittenden Hall, which was where the Psychology Department was located at the time. I often help judge college moot-court competitions in Linsly-Chittenden and like to tell the students about that bit of Yale history.
Are they ever shocked?
They listen politely--we're in character as a judge and moot-court participants waiting for word from the organizers to begin a round, so any responses from the students are restrained!
This is an important and astute piece, @Asha. In his book "Obedience to Authority: An Experimental View" (1974), Milgram stated “Tyrannies are perpetuated by diffident men who do not possess the courage to act out their beliefs.” Philip Zimbardo demonstrated similar dynamics and propensities in his controversial 1971 Stanford Prison Experiment where college-age subjects showed increased brutality when arbitrarily assigned the role of 'guards in a mock prison.
But perhaps the more important point -- which is the second area of focus in your work on complicity -- is about the people who disobey, not just all who are compliant and complicit. Jan Rensaleer, one of Milgam's subjects, responded to the experiment’s warning that he had no other choice to continue at 255 volts by declaring: “I do have a choice. Why don’t I have a choice? I came here on my own free will. I thought I could help in a research project. But if I have to hurt somebody to do that, or if I was in his place, too, I wouldn’t stay there. I can’t continue. I’m very sorry. I think I’ve gone too far already, probably.”
Lastly, I'll share that your article clearly underscores and re-emphasizes, from my perspective, how closely Trump and his followers -- not just the MAGA base but nearly the entirety of the GOP -- tracks to the definitions of pig-butchering frauds: a long-game con in which trust is cultivated -- marks are fattened-up, actually meaning groomed, into allowing coercive control -- before being ruthlessly butchered. This is central to the abusive relationship we've been discussing.
I just watched The Experimenter tonight! I think Rensaleer was Dutch, right? And an electrical engineer…which seemed to make him more empathetic because he knew what it felt like to be shocked.
(Also: Did you know Milgram and Zimbardo went to high school together?)
I'd forgotten that. And you also reminded me of this excellent episode of "Hidden Brain" with Shankar Vedantam:
https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/how-monsters-are-made/id1028908750?i=1000678950428
Fascinating comment… thanks for posting it!
Superb analogy and analysis, A.R.!
Thank you for that...
/glc
Thank you for this cogent analysis of our current predicament. And while I've read quite a bit about Milgrim's experiment, I was unaware of the subsequent research where the changed variables led to a remarkably different result.
TY, Asha. Your ethics informed perspectives all too rare a type these days which makes them all the more necessary.
The “fur piece” that America has drifted off course from our once jealously defend ideals is “shocking”. … Ne plus ultra.
If you do what you’ve always done, you’ll get what you’ve always gotten.
Great piece, and welcome back from cruise, sorry to miss it!
In engineering we call the phenomena you describe as "normalizing deviation". Prime examples were the Space Shuttle accidents. Neither one was caused by a sudden out-of-blue event. The root causes of both had happened, and been observed, documented, and studied many times over many previous missions. Both were way out of specification events that came to be accepted as normal deviations from the intended design. "We've seen it before, it'll be fine" became the group mentality. Until reality and statisitics finally caught up to them, both times.
The Prediction Markets must have read your article-though they failed to give you credit! This is what they are saying, "Prediction markets currently show a strong consensus that Acting Attorney General Todd Blanche will be confirmed by the Senate, with odds hovering between 80% and 85%."
Thanks for making the connection between Todd Blanche's confirmation hearing and Milgram.
Another interesting connection is that Milgram initially decided to test compliance to study the German people's compliance to Hitler and the Nazis. I think many in the scientific field were surprised at the results. So now it is no surprise how trump's lackeys are going along: trump as the authority figure will be obeyed. (Sadly)
I tend to agree with you. I keep hoping that at least a few Republicans will discover some integrity within themselves, but I doubt it.
My even more troubling concern is that, even if not confirmed, Blanche might be able to stay in the Acting AG position indefinitely. What can you tell us about that?
I wonder if the knowledge that Blanche would continue on as acting AG will give further cover for those who are still struggling with drawing a line?
The only Rs that would discover some integrity are those up are up for election in November in states that Trump lost in '24. There is only one - Susan Collins of Maine. However, the race of Dan Sullivan of Alaska is considered a toss-up, as is Husted in Ohio.
Politicians want more than anything to be reelected. That's where their integrity would come from.
Not real integrity, but cynical pragmatism, as I’m sure you know.
Yep.
He shouldn’t. He hasn’t shown any reason why he deserves to.
I’m not that adjustable morally, thank God.
Trump and his sycophant's have been eating away at the soul of our democracy in constant steady bites for the past 10 years. Project 2028 is Trump's "Mein Kampf", and the fascist playbook for the end of our Constitutional democracy and the rule of law. Hopefully Blanche will NOT be confirmed, even though his Dear Leader will probably keep him around, as he is the consummate legal snake for this entire hideous nightmare!
The slippery slope is real in human behavior of all sorts.
Wondering: "making the decision to perform a seemingly inconsequential ethical act can effectively script someone to repeat increasingly larger transgressions" reads that an ethical act is a transgression. I doubt that was the intent. Perhaps it should read: "unethical"...
Correct. Thank you for catching that.